2011/12 NBA Awards: All-NBA Teams

 @BonK  @CollegeWolf Tsk tsk Daniel.  My name is the Irish derivative of "Donald".  

Here, I'll help: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/derivative?s=t

Champ?  You don't think MVP trumps all of that?Anyway: you don't think you're flogging a dead horse just a wee bit there fella? 

 @WithMalice  @CollegeWolf Oh, I didn't realize that the Mavs had 2 1st teamers, a 3rd teamer, and a GM of the Year that year.  Or that they didn't make it out of the conference semis in 2007.

Great counterpoint Donald, you really put me in a box there.

 @CollegeWolf  According to you.  Fact.

 @BonK  @CollegeWolf  Daniel: firstly, the All NBA 1st team isn't chosen on "5 best players".  It's the two best at guard, 2 best at forward, and best center.  Sometimes that doesn't equate to being the "5 best players".  Quite often actually.  I had thought this was common knowledge.

Additionally, sports don't always work like that.  Another thing I thought was pretty common knowledge.  If it did, do we really think Dirk Nowitzki's 2007 Mavs would lose to the Dubs?  Or should we take his MVP trophy back too...

Simply reality Dan.

 @WithMalice  @CollegeWolf  Come on Don, don't put words in my mouth again.  Do the math.  If one team has (according to your votes) 2 of the best 5 players in the league, and 3 of the best 15, plus a GM of the year (which would mean good role players), one would think they could at least get to the conference finals.

That is simple logic Don.

 @WithMalice He doesn't deserve it. Simple fact.

 @CollegeWolf  And just because *you* believe he doesn't deserve it doesn't make it so.

Talk about holding onto some ridiculous notions of 'hate'.  Always blows my mind when someone "hates" a player to this extent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Oy6DwHAi70

 @WithMalice Just because he made it doesn't mean he actually deserved it. Talk about living off his ridiculous "clutch" reputation (lololol.)

 @CollegeWolf  Except enough people disagreed with you that not only did Kobe make the All NBA teams, he made the 1st team.

The hubris to believe that everyone else's wrong...

 @WithMalice  @BonK The difference is that Kobe never deserved to make the All-NBA team in the first place.

Those other guys did.

 @BonK  @CollegeWolf 

Aaaah.  I guess we should take the MVP award away from LeBron James as well then.Chris Paul?  Blake Griffin?  Pffftt.. rubbish.  Boot 'em.Kevin Love?  Hell, his team blew this season: get him OFF the teams!

Awesome logic.

 @WithMalice  @CollegeWolf I am just so surprised with how much the Lakers have been struggling in the playoffs, considering they have 2 All-NBA 1st teamers, an All-NBA 3rd teamer, and GM of the Year!  :)

@WithMalice I've liked Durant and followed him since he was in high school. Also, I am a huge fan of any team that is not the Lakers.

 @CollegeWolf  So given your team isn't competing in the playoffs, which team are you jumping on the bandwagon of?  And if they succeed, do you think you might support them forever more?

I mean, if you were a Thunder supporter, "you" trashing the team I support might actually mean something.  As it is, it's simply mildly amusing.

 @logankulas  @WithMalice  @BonK Keep chucking away Kobe bwahahahahahaha!!! 20 points on TWENTY-FIVE shots in an epic collapse loss. Oh my LOL.

 @WithMalice  @CollegeWolf  @BonK Please stop fighting you two I want things to go back to the way they used to

@BonK @CollegeWolf Completely relaxed Daniel. Thanks for your concern tho'.

 @BonK  @WithMalice Fact.

 @WithMalice  @CollegeWolf 

But Gasoft and Kupcheck still suck.

 @WithMalice  @CollegeWolf Don please stop.  Jeff & the board doesn't need this crap.

All I did was counterpoint your Laker-biased opinions, and you take it personally and make it personal.

Relax Dude.

 @CollegeWolf  @BonK "Provokes everyone"... well, I think it's been established that you have required no provocation whatsoever to become a complete dick on this subject CW.  You have stated several times that you despise the Lakers, and Kobe... and insinuated that you feel he doesn't even belong on the 3rd team this season.  Those are your words.

I missed where I stated that he was the "best player ever".  More dirtbaggery... yet another case of you misrepresenting what's been said, merely because your own position is very shaky.

Yes, I voted him 1st team.  Obviously I was not alone on that.  If someone had him on the 2nd team - or lower - that would be their prerogative.  What I do take exception to is your constant slagging off of me, and my team.  Again, your choice to do so, but don't think that just because you're feeling "chippy" that I'll just sit back, smile, and take it.

 @WithMalice  @BonK For what it's worth, it is appearing that WM provokes everyone that doesn't think Kobe is apparently the best player ever.

@BonK

Hahaha... "watch my mouth"?  Dude, you come in, yap right away and disrespect me (which I don't care about - but don't be surprised when you get it back) immediately slag me off... then whine like a stuck piggie when it gets thrown back at you?  AND have the temerity to claim your hands are clean? 

And LOVE the last line: tell me, do you wear your underpants on the outside of your pants when you play?

 @WithMalice I was feeling admittedly chippy at the time. But it's also ok for people to dislike Kobe, you know.

 @CollegeWolf   Gah.  edit-caught.

So, it's upon me to ignore the juvenile name-calling/slagging off of the team I support.

Gotcha.  Understood.

 @WithMalice Ok!

If ignored then none of this rigamarole would have went down :-)

 @WithMalice If ignored then none of this rigamarole would have went down :-)

 @WithMalice You started it.

 @WithMalice  @BonK I had Blake on the third team.

Oh, and the criminally underrated J-Smoov ABSOLUTELY SHOULD be above Dirk/Blake/Gasoft/etc.

 @BonK   "Here we go" - because you should be free to take shots at me/what I say - and I absolutely shouldn't respond.  Because... ?

'K.  You figure that Odom was going to be of value post the nixed trade to NOLA?  To anyone?   C'mon... it's LA's fault now that the CP3 trade was vetoed.  Right.

And address what was said: I stated that I would have Smoove/Dirk/Pau over Griffin.  I assume from your cherry-picking that you agree that Smoove/Dirk should be in over Blake.

Tell me: other than merely offering up "you're biased" what other than dunks does Griffin offer?

@WithMalice @BradBornhorst @BonK @Jeff Fox @Daddyfatsax See what happens when Kobe finally shares the ball? The Lakers can be unstoppable.

 @BradBornhorst  @BonK  @CollegeWolf  @Jeff Fox  @Daddyfatsax  Both Gasol and Bynum showed well tonight.  And Artest was perhaps the difference.

@BradBornhorst @WithMalice @BonK @Jeff Fox @Daddyfatsax Kobe looked like he was all nba 17th team tonight.

 @WithMalice  @BonK  @CollegeWolf  @Jeff Fox  @Daddyfatsax GaSoft finally looks like GaMan tonight!  Kobe still looks like he's under the weather.

 @BonK  @CollegeWolf  @BradBornhorst  @Jeff Fox  @Daddyfatsax Not so weirdly BonKed Head, I really don't give a rat's ass.

 @WithMalice  @CollegeWolf  @BradBornhorst  @Jeff Fox  @Daddyfatsax Weirdly, I agree with Malicious Man on most of this Kobe convo.  Except for the way he over-dramatizes it, of course.

 @CollegeWolf  @WithMalice  @BradBornhorst  @Jeff  @Daddyfatsax 

Oh how generous of you. 

My point is that in a week you'll simply look at the boxscores, and berate Kobe for shooting so much.

Yet for someone who actually watched the game, there  was absolutely NOTHING to pass to.

@WithMalice @BradBornhorst @Jeff Fox @Daddyfatsax They did just get destroyed. Kobe played surprisingly well for being "sick", I'll give him that!

 @CollegeWolf  @BradBornhorst  @Jeff Fox  @Daddyfatsax  Poignant that you'd make a "dumber-than-dogshit" comment like that today...

 @WithMalice  @BradBornhorst  @Jeff Fox  @Daddyfatsax True. Kobe is so hard to watch.

 @CollegeWolf  @BradBornhorst  @Jeff Fox  @Daddyfatsax I'd *guess* you don't watch many Laker games at all.

 @WithMalice  @BradBornhorst  @Jeff Fox  @Daddyfatsax What I see is  Kobe jacking up ill-advised long jumpers way too often. I also see (or I guess, don't) too much of him not passing the ball into Bynum and Pau into the post. Especially when they have advantageous matchups.

 @BradBornhorst  @Jeff Fox  @CollegeWolf  @Daddyfatsax I'd agree with that.

 @CollegeWolf  @BradBornhorst  @Jeff Fox  @Daddyfatsax I read the articles.The issue is, if you go wholly and solely by statistics, you are going to come up with some pretty skewed results... unless that's entirely what you're after.

They HAVE to be viewed in conjunction with what's seen.

 @BradBornhorst  @Jeff Fox  @Daddyfatsax You check out those articles? I know Kobe passes the "eye test" to most people while he's playing, but stats say nothing of that sort.  Obviously he's still good, but I'm not sure I'd say he's a Top 10 overall complete player. Certainly not Top 5.

 @Jeff Fox  @CollegeWolf  @Daddyfatsax   Kobe is not "vastly declining" as Dave calls it.  But he is definitely past his peak, and the offensive numbers show it this year.  I'd still call him one of the best 5-7 players in the game.

 @CollegeWolf  @Daddyfatsax Not really - McGrady was 21-27 in his prime - had his best year when he was 23, same age as Durant now.

 @WallyWorld  Hold on a sec - I didn't even say where I thought he should be at all, but the vote as was stands.

It's not me who insinuated that perhaps he's not even 3rd team...

 @WallyWorld  @CollegeWolf  @WithMalice Kobe is the epitome of "polarzing", after all.

 @CollegeWolf  @WithMalice If Kobe isn't deemed master of the universe, then he must be a peasant/Brian Scalabrine parallel.

It always HAS to be one extreme on blog comments sections/forums, doesn't it?

So Kobe is worthy of the 2nd or 3rd team? Gee, what a horrible player he must be according to everyone...

@WithMalice Because I was provoked, clearly.....

 @CollegeWolf Unfortunately, that's not all you said.  Equally unfortunately, I bit. 

 @WithMalice  Like I said in my original comment, Kobe is not worthy of 1st team selection. That is all.

@CollegeWolf You have neither been as succinct, or at all reasonable about it. When it comes to Kobe Bryant, your hate is defining. You neither see, or care what really is going on. No-one's said that he was of "MVP" level, yet you've already played that card, haven't you? Just any time #24 comes up, you become very disappointing.

 @WithMalice What are you talking about??? All I've tried to say is that Kobe isn't nearly as good as he used to be, or as good as some people seem to think he is. Face it, he's quickly declining. Especially this year. FACT.

 @CollegeWolf Maybe.  But hardly more so than all of this...

But when *hate* of a player gets to a point where you have not the slightest iota of objectivity, then I think it's time to reappraise what you're doing with your *fandom*. 

I mean hey: I tried to go there on the T-Wolves earlier... but just couldn't.  It's neither who I am, nor what I believe.  It was BS, and I won't belittle myself by pretending it was so just to get a shot in on you.  Both the act, and feeling the need to do so were demeaning, and I shouldn't have done it.  My bad I guess.

I guess the player I dislike the most in the NBA is LeBron.  But that doesn't stop me from appreciating what he's able to do as a player.  Should I get to the point where my *hate* does become at least partly defining of who I am as a fan?  Then it would be time for me to really consider if spewing forth that kind of villification is really worth it.

Knock yourself out if holding on to that kind of foam-at-the-mouth-bile is a necessity to who you are.  But please, avoid ramming it down the throats of others. 

 @WithMalice Kobe is embarrassing to watch.

 @CollegeWolf  Stop it CW.  It's gotten embarrassing. 

 @WithMalice Kobe is shooting a hearty 40% again this game!  What a leader with those 25 shot attempts. Ridiculous.

 @CollegeWolf Your understanding of shot distribution is cute.

 @WithMalice Kobe's chucking away again tonight. More shots than Pau and Bynum combined. And the Lakers are losing. Go figure. HAHA.

 @WithMalice It's true.

 @CollegeWolf  

Blows my mind how simplistic you see it.

 @Daddyfatsax  @WithMalice Take away 10 of his shots and give them to Pau or Bynum and the Lakers probably win the game.

 @WithMalice  @CollegeWolf  Yea, you're right, I may have put words in your mouth. 

 @CollegeWolf  @WithMalice Come on, a bad game makes not a career CW. 

Although he is too dumb to just stop shooting jumpers in favor of Bynum on the block...

 @WithMalice  @CollegeWolf Thank god you guys live 6000 miles apart from one another.

 @CollegeWolf  

Yes CW.  You're right.  Everyone else's wrong.

That's a lot of people you have that over.  That's some awesome hubris you have going there.  Keep that up.

 @WithMalice  @Daddyfatsax Kobe is looking great tonight shooting 6 for 20 with 5 turnovers. Hahahahahaha.

 @Daddyfatsax  

Wait a second, where did I say that he hasn't declined?  Or that I completely IGNORED stats?  Some interesting selective reasoning going on there. CW is ignoring anything remotely resembling *praise* for Kobe/LA.  Always has, always will.

@CollegeWolf 

" Studly! MVP! "

Oh very nice.Tell me: where did I assert that?

Awesome stuff right there CW.  Kudos to you.

 @CollegeWolf 

Durant is better at Space Jaming Tracy McGrady for his length and game. 

 @Daddyfatsax  Durant has become a pretty solid defender, and Kobe has gotten worse with age. Oh well, whatever I won't argue that point too much. And other than rebounding, yes I concur, Kobe wins on the above list.

 @CollegeWolf  @WithMalice 

Better at being an asshole

Better defensively - help and man

Better at yelling at his teammates

Better at rebounding...nope

Better passer

Better at macking breezies

Better at buying wedding rings

Better ball handler

Better fashion sense

Leadership? Not sure...in my opinion they are both quite average leaders, in however my subjective conceptualization of leadership manifests itself. 

 @Daddyfatsax  @WithMalice Fair enough, that's pretty reasonable.

Depending on what you mean by "everything else", I'm not sure that Kobe is better than Durant at it all, but again, fair points.

 @WithMalice  @CollegeWolf Goodness you two. 

Kobe is enjoying a classic case of halo bias where his name is carrying him . He's obviously still very good but you're as biased as CW if you can't see how he has slipped. While I'm always first and foremost an eyeball guy, you can't just ignore stats. He has an enormous usage rate that masks, to those not paying very close attention to advanced stats, his decline in efficiency. He's still very good defensively, which CW is overlooking. He's a better at everything else than Durant (Durant is clearly the better scorer)

 @WithMalice Oh, and 3.5 turnovers per game compared to 4.6 assists per game!  Studly! MVP! 

Not. (Barf)

 @WithMalice Well now you are just generalizing and making up stuff.

Kobe led the league with 23 field goal attempts per game. Next closest was the scoring champ with 19.7 per game.

On top of the fact that he took the most shots of anyone in he league, his shooting was just brutal: 43% overall and 30% from three pointers.  Yeah, that's awesome!  Everyone go salute the ball chucker Kobe!

You know if he'd shot half as many times and just fed the ball inside to Pau or Bynum, the Lakers would be freakin unstoppable and would have been the #1 seed. But he's too selfish and egotistical to do that.

 @CollegeWolf Hahahaha... "usage rate".

Gogo Hollinger-boy!  Fall back on your stats.  Reiterating: I'll watch the games.

Anyone who constantly (and yes, you CONSTANTLY) rips on Kobe Bryant falls in one of two categories:

1. Is coloured by his hate so badly that they cannot fathom any praise at all for Kobe/Lakers at all.  Regardless.

or...

2. Doesn't watch basketball.

Reality check CW: other than Henry Abbott, pretty much everyone is in agreement that Kobe's had a pretty damn good season.

Cope.

 @WithMalice Dude are you serious? First of all no one was comparing Love to Kobe. But if you must, Love is clearly far superior to Kobe statistically (cough cough Usage Rate cough cough)

Oh, and ripping on the TWolves?  Wow, nice fall back there... good one.  We were the most injured team in the NBA this year.

 @CollegeWolf  Ummm... you deride Kobe's game, yet he has the Lakers still playing.  Love's team stunk it up royally second half of the season.

 @WithMalice What does that have to do with anything? No one is talking about Kevin Love.

 @CollegeWolf Gee.  Yet look at where the Lakers are, compared to where K-Love's T-Wolves are.

Go figure.

Yes CW, everyone else's wrong.  You're right.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... 

 @CollegeWolf  @WithMalice This is going to get ugly.

 @WithMalice I do watch the games. Kobe just isn't that good anymore.  He's a chucker that plays a TON of minutes.

 @CollegeWolf Whatever.Tell you what, you enjoy your boxscores, your statlines... and I'll watch the games.